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Now I'd like to introduce today's speaker, Dr. James E. McNall, who I will certainly

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present to you. He is the senior physicist from the University of Arizona and a professor

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in the Department of Meteorology. He's had research interest in meteorology in many other

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areas. He's been with the University since 54. He has a number of professional affiliations

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which I have come up with to read with you. He is a member, for example, the National Academy

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Science Panel on Weather and Climate Publications and a member of the American Meteorological

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Society's Publication Commission and so on. His credentials are beyond question. When we've

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asked him to come and talk today, he was about a very controversial but highly interesting

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aspect of our national and international scene. The question of UFO. We wanted to have someone

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come with his type of background to bring to us the view of a scientist on this very important

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question. Dr. McNall.

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I'm very pleased you have this opportunity to talk to the AI and learn about this topic.

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I have asked a number of students, not to give you a little question, but many scientists

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and colleagues in the Department of Health and Welfare and there is probably no room for

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the remarks that I've been trying to make are better directed than your own group because

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I believe what I've seen and learned in the last 50 years is a very hard study of the

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UFO problem. That's very far from being an uncensored problem. It's rather widely

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cracked up to the UFO problem. Instead, one of the largest scientific issues. I've listened

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to the professors running to the various speakers views on the decade ahead in space planning

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and as you just noted, a certain interregnation of pessimism about competing planetary claims

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and the Vietnam and so on. I believe I did as a person who's other thought or moved from

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space to science. I sense a certain amount of high-wit, optimisticism by the way,

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to remind you that things that are visible by point interfere with rapid growth of the

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space program at the same time that we're pushing ahead on their future.

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So, one of the things that I'm going to say today, I'm going to cross very fatically, is this.

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I think that the UFO problem when it's in the front of you, it's out of the open and it's not now

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out of the open. It's likely to. I don't think I'm flat, sir. It's likely to have a very profound

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and very favorable effect in space and science's planning in the United States and the world

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is likely to have a positive result. And I say that because after 15 months of inter-war

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witnesses, I believe I've talked to about 250 witnesses in key cases in the United States

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and recently I was down in Australia, New Zealand, just got back there some weeks ago.

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And talking to these witnesses in cases, getting right down to the people who have seen the

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optics and have been out in the theater and they're now flying beside the optics.

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I have, sorry, eliminated my point of view as a scientist with some awareness of the

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alternative hypotheses. I've eliminated as likely explanation of the UFO phenomenon.

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Really far back to the concern, unreasonable and unlikely, yet extremely interesting hypothesis

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that these may be extraterrestrial probes and gains and surmendants.

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This is not in the original idea of my own. Of course, various people, a great deal of

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knowledge of the UFO problem outside the main channels of science have been saying this.

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You know, I've seen this like a few years and we haven't collectively accomplished something

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and listening to them. Certainly a lot of arrogance involved there, I believe this is sort of saying.

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And a certain amount of bureaucracy and a wide worry about that nonsense problem.

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And a very, very large barrier, coming from this lack of attention to the pleas that remain

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from a lot of scientists in the very large measure of the timing of the part of all of this, I'm sure.

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I'm part of the Congress, the press, public large, that the agency which was charging with me

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of getting back to this problem was doing a good job.

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I was also, until I finally got up to write that, and spent, of course, three visits up there,

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a lot of time looking at the finals, talking to the people involved, talking to the general in charge of the

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committee, talking to the chief scientist, talking to the chief scientist himself, going to Washington,

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talking to air force, to the scientist, and talking to people with the whole operating levels

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in the Air Force All-Part's country. I finally came to realize that that kind of confidence

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which was ordinarily outpatched was ill-put. The end of the UFO problem has been inept,

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super-fessional, very inept. And I told no questions on that. I said that to Air Force generals,

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like I said to you as a former scientist. And I have not done a scientific investigation of the UFO problem,

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and most of us have thought that probably there's a nation that can probably resolve a careful investigation

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and better just plain forget about that. I'm sad to, at least one Air Force general

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who I know in one word gets out of the air force moment, very, very sad. And I'm afraid I've had this statement

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that I would make with the long run regarding now, when I made it a little more than a year ago,

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General Prushank and Frank Patterson. The general was coming to me, and I was well up and running,

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and I was writing a proud project, and I was paying him a little attention to it, and I was going

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out to General Prushank, and he just not happy to have said that to me, because any Air Force project

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can solve a major, a sub-unit and a secretary, as much as the Air Force head for his project,

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to 30-year-olds. But it's still the run from that. I don't get on perfectly from that,

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but I want to thank you, and it's just not, I mean, it's like a destructive side to things.

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It's got to be a reason to make these negative comments, but they say, you understand people,

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maybe what I am bound is looking very closely. Even that world officer who was there,

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had signed his documents, and it is positive years. There have been about 60 world officers

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that signed it to you. You understand them, and it's signed to the documents. No, I don't know

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about meteorological objects. No radar propagation. No aerodynamics meteorological astronomy.

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That might have been horrible, but in fact, the world priority, which is this thing that's

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sucked over the years, has made such a really quite untrained people. We don't even know

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whether they're explaining to you what was in terms of the Tungsten Star, or a meteor,

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rather than being in the open sky. They have been getting Air Force into one more hot water,

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which apparently goes into the air force, but you recognize it's a rock story. And for

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many more tales on this, see the paper that I have just brought, I need to put outside

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the room here. There are about 150 or 200 copies, something like that. They paper represented

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the importance of the American Society of New Safer Editors. It's a good opportunity to

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lay on the line a lot of the history, as I've seen it, of my computer problem, and see that

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for many more tales on the Air Force's

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confusing Venus and various things like that. And it is true, there's many people who have

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confused the Star Wars and so on, things that are something unusual. But these recognitions

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and findings of Roberts' committee in 1953 are surprisingly important to the throat, and

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still not fully disclosed recommendations, which I, by an error on the part of the major,

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declassified the document for me right across the desk on the stake in the document that came

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in the DLT 12 year rule, and later declassified the CIA heard about it. And many people have

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well, nobody else in here for sure. But since I've discussed this a long time ago in the

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CIA, a little time from my advice, I've discussed it with the President of the United

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States, they were not just for a debunking policy, and this is the literal, not my

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that's not my physiology. They requested that the Air Force develop the flying saucers, and

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the same reason was to reduce public interest in flying saucers. And this was because of the

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sheer bulk of the UFO reports came in a year before jamming these houses, and grand of

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the group of five scientists who took a three-day look at the problem, decided there wasn't

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anything to it the way of the hospital for hours, and I have been in America courting this,

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there wasn't anything to it, except that Simon came to me and asked for this policy. It was

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a man who made product by promulgation of Air Force Regulatory 200-2, which made it a

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$10,000 over 10 years in prison, crime for any air base of it, and that includes army base,

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marine base, navy base, operating level of personnel to enforce pain-related violence and

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identify, and there was immediate step-function for opting in the number of

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non-authority sightings that got out. And that's the scenario of the long-serving

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of an ass, which, as I read the record, led the time when you were out doing the

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job, and you got no problem to where I believe, sincerely. If you're out, this is my

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belief based on a great deal of discussion and analysis. That the Air Force is no victim to

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its own propaganda and personnel change, people came in having the air force

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as a relief, and nobody else has cracked more and more, and yet it is unbelievable what you

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see in the record. If I'm using a number of fairly strong adjectives and adverbs, don't

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believe that I do this and just have a problem I discuss, this problem is on the

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demands, pretty strong adjectives and adverbs. When the front record is out, and you all

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say this one or later, it will be hard to believe that something larger from the

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police here, from the security here, from the government, the RCF, the home force, have all this

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time failed to recognize that non-air bases, sort of, are operating some kind of

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plan, from which none of our air forces seem to have any help. And this will be

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very hard to believe that you've seen the record fully as it comes out. I have been

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looking at it for a great detail, and this I find is very hard to understand. But not many

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factories are involved. It's not that big a problem. It's not packaged for any to agree to

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mathematical physicists and to apply as equations to it. It's a problem in which anecdotal

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data to a large extent is what you have to start out with, and many scientists don't

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care for this one. I'm not very happy about dealing with anecdotal data either, but

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sometimes you've got what you've got, and this is where we're going to have to pack up

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problems to start in order to get the problem upgraded to where agencies with the type

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of resources, scientific and budgetary, can do justice to design an entirely new type

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of sensing systems to get objective present, subjective anecdotal, objective

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laundry of what in the world is going on in the LFO's house. And it's something you try

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to draw into the millions of untapped, ununiversal movements. If you keep your

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goods about, you give up. If you give up because you're dealing with a category of data,

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the volume of which is not used primarily by the real men, the real syllabus, but by

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the local priests, paid by local business and radio. So the ridicule would fluctuate

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from one time to another, and fluctuate dramatically because sometimes you're

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getting the concern that there is a good setting in an area. It is obviously a

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very important factor in varying the number of reports that come out to public attention,

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whether through airport channels or through groups like Niagara and Washington, or

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through just press reporting. The fluctuations that are in humans are the main factors in

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changing the number of reports that come out. And if you're such a pertinent person,

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and I have given you a lot of this land, I ask you to give you, I can tell you what geographic

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matters are, are, are, are, are, are the changes over the entire, I mean I'm doing it in a different

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now, I was going on in 1947, around smack up against the difficulty, just about there

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are all the conclusions to many of this at present because the subjective psychological

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factor of radio is extremely obvious to you. Same thing about, I was quite surprised when

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I was down in Australia, there were 80 witness cases in Australia, in June and July, and

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June is, and it exerts exactly the same effect in keeping these off sites in, I'm sorry,

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I had them frozen in the US. The problem is we're playing that kind of data with object

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data, and this will only be done when some star, I mean science, or an agency, takes

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a look at the problem. I talked to the National Science Foundation to improve it in the opposite

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way, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,

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163
00:19:00,060 --> 00:19:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

164
00:19:30,060 --> 00:20:00,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

165
00:20:00,060 --> 00:20:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

166
00:20:30,060 --> 00:21:00,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

167
00:21:00,060 --> 00:21:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

168
00:21:30,060 --> 00:22:00,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

169
00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

170
00:22:30,060 --> 00:23:00,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

171
00:23:00,060 --> 00:23:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

172
00:23:30,060 --> 00:24:00,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

173
00:24:00,060 --> 00:24:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

174
00:24:30,060 --> 00:25:00,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

175
00:25:00,060 --> 00:25:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

176
00:25:30,060 --> 00:26:00,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

177
00:26:00,060 --> 00:26:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

178
00:26:30,060 --> 00:27:00,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

179
00:27:00,060 --> 00:27:30,060
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to

180
00:27:30,060 --> 00:27:44,260
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to,

181
00:27:44,260 --> 00:27:50,960
to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to, and, and, and,

182
00:27:51,060 --> 00:27:54,400
to, and, and, and, a, and, a, and, and, an, an,

183
00:27:54,740 --> 00:27:58,700
an, an, an, an, a, an,